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Thread: Is there evidence that Vaccines and Modern Medicine are not responsible for lower mortality?

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    Senior Craver Mugen_KK's Avatar
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    Is there evidence that Vaccines and Modern Medicine are not responsible for lower mortality?

    Vaccines Did Not Save Us – 2 Centuries of Official Statistics « ________________Child Health Safety_________________This is especially for Feyndude as I want to see his opinion on this since we've sparred on this subject more than a few times. The rhetoric on the webpage aside (a little over the top, even for me lol), what do you think of the data presented there? Honest thoughts guys.

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    I think anyone who questions whether modern medicine or vaccines have had an impact on mortality is the worst kind of fucking fool.

    But more directly to the point, too much liberal pwnage going on today for a proper dressing down in this thread.

    :-) Maybe tomorrow.

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    Senior Craver Big Pacific's Avatar
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    Gamertag Capn Stabbins
    Please tell me this isn't going to become the "VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM AND SUCK FOR HUMANZ" conspiracy theory. Please.

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    I'm yellin' timber. hubzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Pacific View Post
    Please tell me this isn't going to become the "VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM AND SUCK FOR HUMANZ" conspiracy theory. Please.
    I think that's the intention.

    Pass.
    Sometimes I wrestle with my demons.
    But most of the time, we just snuggle.

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    Senior Craver Mugen_KK's Avatar
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    The intention is to validate/disprove the contention that Vaccines and modern medicine are responsible for the majority of increase in lifespan etc. Of course, we can credit vaccines with many early successes, (measles, smallpox etc), not only are there diseases that vaccines seem to have a somewhat limited effect on (40% of children with the chickenpox vaccine got it anyway in one study, e.g.) but also, some vaccines have deadly side-effects (not autism lulz) that may outweigh the potential benefits. Some (pretty smart people) attribute the decrease in mortality from infectious disease to things like, better hygiene, clean water, clean food etc. Its a simple premise that is simple to prove. There appears to be evidence in the link I posted. If you want to draw conclusions (or infer other, unstated conclusions are being drawn) aside from that (hub, pacific) kindly GTFO or at least STFU.
    Last edited by Mugen_KK; 11-02-2010 at 08:21 PM.

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    Gamertag Monkey Man 27
    How many people do you know who died from polio?
    /thread
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    Senior Craver Big Pacific's Avatar
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    Gamertag Capn Stabbins
    Lolz, i looked at your "source" which is a blog on wordpress, another amazingly credible source on your part and saw the following other posts, which i'm sure you'll want to cite as "articles":

    Flu Vaccine Caused 3587 US Miscarriages & Stillbirths
    Mercury & Autism – Naming and Shaming Dr Gorski & “Science Free Zone” Bloggers
    Mercury As A Cause of Autism – More Denialist Junk “Science” from Pediatrics Journal
    Professor Stephen Curry – “Half-Arsed” Dumbing Down of Science
    UK “Faked” National Autism Data To Declare MMR Vaccine “Safe”

    So maybe it's you that should GTFO or stfu?

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    Senior Craver Mugen_KK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Pacific View Post
    Lolz, i looked at your "source" which is a blog on wordpress, another amazingly credible source on your part and saw the following other posts, which i'm sure you'll want to cite as "articles":

    Flu Vaccine Caused 3587 US Miscarriages & Stillbirths
    Mercury & Autism – Naming and Shaming Dr Gorski & “Science Free Zone” Bloggers
    Mercury As A Cause of Autism – More Denialist Junk “Science” from Pediatrics Journal
    Professor Stephen Curry – “Half-Arsed” Dumbing Down of Science
    UK “Faked” National Autism Data To Declare MMR Vaccine “Safe”

    So maybe it's you that should GTFO or stfu?
    Again, discrediting evidence by where it comes from? Let me show you why it is you who should GTFO or STFU. Your incredulity at my source is predicated on the fact that it is a blog and that it has other posts which you deem to be lacking in credibility. Two facts that have nothing to do with the claims being made on the page cited. Namely these sources * “The questionable contribution of medical measures to the decline of mortality in the United States in the twentieth century“. McKinlay JB, McKinlay SM, Milbank Mem Fund Q Health Soc. 1977 Summer; 55(3): 405-28.

    * “Symposium: Accomplishments in Child Nutrition during the 20th Century. Infant Mortality in the 20th Century, Dramatic but Uneven Progress” Myron E. Wegman School of Public Health, University of Michigan: J. Nutr. 131: 401S–408S, 2001.

    Measles Over Diagnosed – Up to 7400%

    A. Laboratory confirmed cases of measles, mumps, and rubella, England and Wales: October to December 2004

    Notified: 474, Tested: 589†, Confirmed cases: 8

    RATE OF OVERDIAGNOSIS:- 589/8 = proportionately 7400% or 74 times overdiagnosed

    SOURCE: CDR Weekly, Volume 15 Number 12 Published: 24 March 2005

    [Note from Source: "†Some oral fluid specimens were submitted early from suspected cases and may not have been subsequently notified, thus the proportion tested is artificially high for this quarter."]

    B. Total confirmed cases of measles and oral fluid IgM antibody tests in cases notified to ONS*: weeks 40-52/2005

    Notified: 408, Tested: 343, Confirmed cases: 22

    RATE OF OVERDIAGNOSIS:- 343/22 = proportionately 1560 % or 15.6 times overdiagnosed

    SOURCE: CDR Weekly, Volume 16 Number 12 Published on: 23 March 2006
    . The same information could be in scribbled in cow sh!t on the back of an elephants @ss, neither fact (cow sh!t or said scribbling on said elephants said @ss) has any effect on the truth value of the claims. So again, either discuss the claims or STFU & GTFO.

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    I'm yellin' timber. hubzilla's Avatar
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    So, over a 3 month period, some doctors in the UK erred on the side of caution.

    Boring.
    Sometimes I wrestle with my demons.
    But most of the time, we just snuggle.

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    Gamertag Monkey Man 27
    Ok, so 8 people in the UK had measles.
    How many died of measles before the vaccine?
    Hard to over diagnose dieing from measles.
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